Interview with Mark Jeavons and Rob Leetham
by Julia Jones

The Garden House, Hagley Road, Birmingham.
Thursday, 12th October, 2006

Julia Jones: When did you begin to write the script? Why? What motivated you?

Mark Jeavons: It was about August last year. I just started writing the script because I know a friend who used to film wedding videos and he had lots of funny stories about how the wedding videos would, you know, always go wrong and lots of disasters. We got talking about it and it seemed like a really good comedy idea about a guy who always messes up when trying to film weddings. The idea stayed with me and I started to write that as a comedy film and with this character, Pete Blaggit, as the central character, and the more drafts I did the more it evolved. It just started out as a basic comedy and there were no real issues with Pete's background or history or any mental illness that he might have. The more it evolved the more I delved into Pete's history and background. That added to his character, and that evolved quite a bit to the monster it is now.

JJ: Rob, what attracted you to the film and to the role of Pete?

Rob Leetham: Well, I'd worked with Mark a couple of times before, once on a short film and on his first feature in a cameo. We started talking about this film about a year and a half ago and it involved at that point talking about ... Mark had mentioned it to me and told me he had a role for me. As it evolved there were various drafts. I got draft two and then a few of us spoke about it and banded ideas about and stuff. It evolved to draft 6, which is the filming script. And along the way I was playing a character called Uri, to begin with, and the whole thing evolved. Because I had a bit of time in the auditions, in the audition space, and Mark had contacted me previously to ask if I wouldn't mind reading in to help other actors as they come in to read for roles, I was just reading various parts. Originally, I wasn't sure about the role of Pete. The whole thing just evolved at first and I think I might have even turned it down, I don't know.

MJ: Yeah! Saying it wasn't exactly as you saw Pete, it wasn't right for you.

RL: Yeah, which was a silly thing to do as an actor, really, turning down a role in a film! In the earlier drafts I wasn't sure whether I'd be right for it. As it evolved to draft six we banded ideas around that I should play Pete and Uri, and then started toying with ideas about how they were connected, etc. etc. The script took a turn to the left and about draft five somewhere we decided then that I was okay with playing the role of Pete then because it sort of made sense. I read Pete in all the auditions as well for people to read Clive and for people to read Eugene. And then I had a call from Mark one evening saying, are you sitting down, I want you to play both roles. It was a strange one. I'd sort of gunned for the role in Necro Bride ('My Necrophiliac Bride' - Mark's short film from 2004 featuring Rob) and the cameo in the other film. But this one I was sort of dipping my toes in, saying Uri would be a great character, Uri is a great character, and could have a lot of fun playing that. It sort of just occurred! It did go through stages, though. At first I said I'd really like to audition and then I changed my mind. So the whole thing is very muddy!

MJ: I did always see - when I started writing the first couple of drafts - I did always see Rob just in the back of my mind. I just always thought that maybe Rob would be right for Pete. Then I thought maybe not. And then I thought...I don't know, it's just funny how you have that at the back of your mind.

RL: It was an age thing, really, because the character of Pete is a lot older than me. We were trying to work out how we'd have Pete in the flashbacks meeting his wife, Tracey, and being slightly younger than me now and slightly older at the end of the film. So at no point was there any sort of equilibrium on the ages, The bulk of Pete, he's in the late thirties and early forties, that's when he's a bit of a mess. We did a few scenes of him earlier on in life when he's completely different. So there was a bit of a challenge there. So, kudos to Mary Cooke on the make-up for that because she managed to do a wonderful, wonderful job. In fact, all the make-up and Charlie Bluett (SFX Artist) and Geri Spencer (costume designer) and everyone and the special effects and the costumes and everything. In order for Pete to be able to go through those age ranges you needed professionals like that on board, and they did a wonderful, wonderful job.

MJ: Absolutely.

RL: And they've still got to do a bit more!

MJ: They've not finished yet!

JJ: As the script stands now, at draft six, what would you say were the key themes and issues?

MJ: The key themes with Pete is that at the beginning he's just not a very pleasant guy at all. He's just shouting at bridesmaids and he's a complete mess, and he's not a pleasant character at all. There's the theme of him having lots of hallucinations throughout the script. Early on he's filming a bride and he looks down the lens of the camera and he sees the bride as a zombie kind of character, just a flash image. So there's lots of themes of him hallucinating and seeing things, and whether all this is all going on in his mind because he's on medication as well, or whether it's actually real or what, and no one takes him seriously. Themes of him having all these weird moments occurs a lot as the story goes on we realise that Pete was once happily married back in the day and his baby died. It was his fault that his baby died in a cot death and there's lots of themes with Pete hallucinating and seeing a dead baby or hearing baby voices talking to him. So there's lots of things regarding Pete's baby, and that keeps on coming up and recurring throughout the film, so I guess those would be the main themes. And all the crazy aliens…

RL: The way I read it, I mean, that could be Pete actually losing it metaphorically on screen. Or is that him just away on the booze and the medication and everything else? Is that what he's thinking or is he using it as a sort of excuse, really, for his life going wrong? Telling everyone he's seeing aliens and stuff, or is that actually what he's seeing? That is what is really fascinating about the character, that paradox.

MJ: That's the main turning point in the film, when Pete gets abducted by aliens and he starts telling his best friend, Clive, 'I've been abducted by aliens'. That's when Clive's obviously thinking, well, he's obviously lost the plot. And that's the main turning point for Pete in the film and he goes on a course of self-discovery from that point on, really.

RL: Self-discovery/self-destruction!

MJ: Yeah! It all goes a bit weird at that point.

RL: It was kind of really interesting that during the first days of shooting we started with the first couple of scenes of the film, talking to Mark during rehearsals and stuff. The thing Mark wanted was to make Pete quite unlikeable at the beginning of the film, so people wouldn't warm to the character. Some of the lines are funny and trying to make them unintentionally funny was quite difficult! He's just a really nasty person at work who as the film goes on the exposition of the character why he's like that and how he's become who he is, hence all the flashbacks. He wasn't always a...git!

MJ: He was a nice guy who had a nice life and then it all went wrong.

RL: As he nosedives, these things start happening - aliens etc, and he starts hearing them. They're as clear as day to him but everyone else is thinking: 'what is going on with him'. They know he is…I would say he's got a serious case of depression but the other characters in the film are worried it's something else within him.

JJ: He sounds a really difficult character to play because he's a difficult character to like. Did you come to like him in the end?

RL: It's mixed feelings. It's more sympathy, really. I tried to make him a bit … a character that people wouldn't like to begin with, which isn't easy to do because the natural thing to do is to want to make the audience warm to you! We're trying to do the exact opposite. In the first twenty minutes, half an hour, in the first half of the film we're trying to create this total monster. And trying to gain the sympathy later on, really. Not melodramatically or sort of ramming it down people's throats, but there is this story, this background story that starts to unfold about things that happened to him that have made him the way it is. It explains why he drinks, why he's on medication and, to a point, why he's having strange visions of aliens and the fact that he's haunted by this cot death, of his baby. It was when he was drinking, and he nips out to this gambling shop, and comes back, and that's the pivotal moment, really, where he just…he just goes into shock for a certain amount of time and never really faces up to it and sort of towards the end of the film he confronts all these feelings and all this guilt that he's got. I think he knows deep down that he's done it to himself. I think that's what he finds so hard to cope with, that he can't really blame that many people outside himself. He kind of knows that and he's not really willing to admit it until later on.

MJ: But it is a comedy.

RL: In amongst all this, yeah! There are lots of very funny incidents! I suppose character-wise he is a mess. But, yeah, he is funny.

JJ: Moving on to the comedy side, it is…You've got some really serious issues there, and issues that probably a lot of people will be able to relate to or be quite horrified by. Was it difficult to achieve that balance between comedy and the serious…

MJ: That was probably the challenge, really, to get that balance right. It started out as a straightforward comedy, and I've always been attracted to writing comedy and making comedy films, so the comedy element I was quite comfortable with. But that dark story that's going on as well, it's a challenge to get that balance right, so it does dip between comedy to seriousness, to weird hallucinations. It is a bit of a mix, but that's what I enjoy, that's why I wanted to make it, I enjoy that challenge of having such a mix of different genres going on at the same time.

JJ: I notice in the online diary that you mention that you reflected on Donnie Darko and a good Terry Gilliam movie. Are there any other films that inspired you?

MJ: Yeah, I suppose Terry Gilliam films and David Lynch films, even though it was a comedy to begin with. I wouldn't say that there's one film that really inspired me to make Pete Blaggit. But, yeah, I would say The Fisher King, maybe, by Terry Gilliam, was a great film as well, and that also deals with mental illness with Robin Williams's character. That would be the main film I would be able to pinpoint. But no one film in particular.

JJ: Did you do any research, Rob, when you were preparing for the role?

RL: It's a tricky one, because it's such an original role in some respects, apart from just a few chats about these wedding videos. It really was more a case of a thought process. As a character, Pete Blaggit… It's funny, someone phoned up my agent and asked who Pete Blaggit was. They'd heard there was a documentary about him being made in Birmingham! I'm hoping that we're starting something that people can research from, maybe. There's not a lot to go on. As a character he's all over the place. One minute he's hyperactive and popping pills trying to calm himself down; thoroughly unpleasant, shouting, screaming, swearing. It's like being so sort of backed in a corner you just want to scream your head off! I don't know what you can draw from. Maybe tax bills, that kind of thing!

JJ: So, to both of you, is there anyone you know like that or are there lots of people you know who've got elements of Pete in them?

RL: If I did know anyone like that I don't think I'd vampire off them. I would say it's a creation for script.

MJ: I think as the script evolved, Pete's character evolved as well.

RL: Yeah, and it's the characters around him as well; his brother who's never…he's never really nice to his brother. The whole back history, Pete, ripping off his parents, he's taken a load of money off his family, he's drained his brother dry, and…

MJ: Spent it all in the casino…

RL: Yeah, sort of a great gambling addiction. There are all these things that have been written into it that, research wise, there's a limited amount I could do and did. I spoke to various situations or something, but mainly it's just from the page, really.

JJ: You mention, Mark, that you're disappointed with the lack of support from the UK Film Council. Did they give any reasons for not helping?

MJ: Well, I applied for funding from the film council. They say simple yes or no. I think they choose projects on the basis of who's attached to your projects. It's a case of politics rather than funding a film because you love the script. That'll be my guesswork. I'm in my early stages of a career as a filmmaker, I'm not established by any means, and they're looking for safe bets in terms of who they're going to fund. They look at everyone who's attached to projects, so that'll be my guesswork as to why the Film Council said no. But, to be honest, I didn't expect to get funding from the Film Council at all. I mean, you try anyway because that's what they're there for. I didn't expect to get funding but you've got to try.

JJ: Who actually funded it in the end?

MJ: It was myself and the lead actress in the film, Gabrielle Amies, who's down as the Executive Producer and Co-Producer. We self-funded it, half-each, basically.

JJ: Have any distributors expressed an interest?

MJ: We're just concentrating on completing the film first before sending it out to distributors.

JJ: How do you think audiences will respond to Pete?

RL: Again, that's an unknown factor, really, isn't it?

MJ: That's an interesting one.

RL: Obviously, I'd hope that they'd warm to the film in a way that…I don't want to be a sort of Withnail and I or anything like that, or some of the sort of lower budget independent features that have come out of Britain, or anywhere, really. I mean it's got that sort of potential, really, to be a cult hit. Just because of the characters in it, and there's quite a lot to get your teeth into to watch it as an audience as well. Just, I think the test will be when it takes that turn, when it just…I suppose in a way it's like that Tarantino movie, the vampire film, that came out a couple of years ago, From Dusk Till Dawn. It started off as a heist movie and suddenly turned into a vampire movie. It's a sort of copy of that. It's the way it's evolved. It starts about this guy having a bit of a mid-life, not enjoying himself. You know, filming videos on VHS, a sort of eighties throwback because everyone's got camcorders. He's just drifting into self-destruction, isn't he?

MJ: Yeah, yeah.

RL: And it does go off on a sort of tangent. I think that's when…

MJ: Yeah, it just takes a complete left turn.

RL: I think that's when the audience, you know, will be tested and we'll see what people make of it. For me, you mentioned the research thing earlier, and I've read the script loads and loads of times and there are so many different angles you can approach it from and there's a quite ambiguous end to the whole thing that you can take different meanings from as well. I would hope they'd respond very well to it.

MJ: For me, when I'm always writing or making a film I always treat it as if I am an audience member in a way. What I'm watching on the monitor, is that right? Is that working or is it not working? It's a case of if I please myself and I'm happy with the film, then that's great, and if anyone else likes it, that's great. Obviously, I want it to take off and for as many people to watch it as possible. But, as long as it pleases me I'm happy. It's one of those things…

RL: That's the reason for the six drafts as well, isn't it?

MJ: Absolutely. Yeah.

RL: Hone it down, get it right. And all the crew and cast who came on board came on board because of the script, obviously, but there were a lot of good comments about the script, a lot buzz about it amongst cast and crew. It was quite special.

MJ: That was because I took a lot of time over the script and got lots of feedback from Rob, and as many people as possible. Before the alien abduction scene was in there, I said: 'What if Pete got abducted by aliens?', and threw the idea out to people. The whole time travelling element, as well, just throwing ideas about, really. It was a case of spending a long time on the script until I was completely happy with it.

RL: There was that hunger not just to do, 'it's a British independent film', so there's a lot of gangster and rom-coms that we've all seen and heard before. Everyone wants to copy Guy Ritchie or wants to do a Merchant Ivory. We wanted to come out at left at field, to present something quite unique that wouldn't be predictable either. To credit the audience with something brand new. People who enjoy those sort of films that we've been talking about, I reckon they'll really be into this.

MJ: I think there's an audience there for it.

JJ: You mention that it's something really original. You've not based it on a particular film. There are so many elements to it that somebody is going to take something different from every time. I'm coming from a mental illness angle, and clearly there are going to be people who have experienced psychosis, depression, mid-life crisis, anxiety, and chronic feelings of guilt. What do you hope that they'll get from it? Do you think they'll be inspired by it or reflect on themselves?

MJ: I wouldn't hope that they'd think we're taking the mickey, but that we are just trying to treat the whole mental illness issue with respect. When trying to tell a story of mental illness it's important to get it right. You have to respect what the character's going through.

RL: Yes. It's just one take on a very, very large subject.

JJ: Absolutely. It's not something you can encapsulate in one film.

RL: It's not particularly about Pete…It's never suggested that he has something particularly.

MJ: Yes.

RL: But there are some elements of severe depression. Like I say, he's almost bi-polar because he's either complete hyper or in the depths and it's never really suggested that he's schizophrenic. He does have these visions and hears voices and there are a few scenes where he's desperately trying to explain this to his friends, and nobody in the film laughs at that. It's a concern. People are trying to help him help himself. But in lots of these situations I think that's the crux of it, you know, the person involved has got to want to help themselves before anyone else can offer them any help. Pete deflects people's suggestions. He won't open up, he won't let anyone in, but then he comes out with this stuff, 'it was the aliens who told me to do it', you know, 'I've been shown the end of the world.' I think Clive particularly acts very caring towards him. It's been dealt with that way that's not taking a cheap shot.

MJ: Just because it is a comedy, it's not like…

RL: The comedy's dealt with in the incidental situations. The more manic Pete gets it's almost unintentional comedy. He just keeps getting himself further and further into this bizarre web. You just can't help every now and then some of the things he's said and some of the things that happen are almost slapstick. That's the beauty of the film, I think, one minute it can be laugh out loud and the next minute you are thinking, what's all that about? There's no real film formula. It's not the usual…

JJ: Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've done a fantastic thing in my opinion, you've not put a label on anything. It took you some time to mention the term, 'bi-polar', and you just mention the symptoms. I know a lot of people, a lot of men in particular, find it difficult to go to the doctor, and say 'I'm feeling this, doctor'. So they've got all these symptoms and don't understand it, and there are many celebrities who have suffered symptoms for most of their lives and have only recently found out that they have a condition with a name, so to speak.

RL: No. Definitely. We didn't go for any clichés.

MJ: No. It's not like we're focusing on Pete's mental illness at all. It's just hinted at.

JJ: It's just part of the film. One of the many elements?

MJ: Absolutely, yeah

RL: Definitely.

JJ: So is it a film that you wouldn't mind promoting to various mental health charities, providing a platform for the exploration of common mental health problems such as depression, anxiety and stress as well as the more serious disorders?

RL: I think those are the main three. Absolutely. I think there's a huge amount of stress, anxiety and a huge amount of depression involved in Pete's character. It's difficult as a film to present to…

MJ: Because it is a light-hearted comedy as well!

RL: It's a bit of a landmine because nobody on…I'm not a psychiatrist so, you know, I suppose it's a relatively ordinary person's take on that sort of situation. I wouldn't ram it down anyone's throat, but if they wanted to watch it I would say that's how we've portrayed somebody in that situation having reached that point in their lives where they really don't know whether they're coming or going. I think the essential part of it all, which I mentioned earlier, is that Pete's done it to himself. It's so incredibly awkward to deal with. Sometimes, it can be outside forces that affect somebody to a degree that they'd have a condition. I think in this case that Pete has self-inflicted a lot of the problems. Nobody forced him to drink or take pills. He just got a bit lazy somewhere along his life and he can't really cope with it. He's never really had the intuition to ask anyone for that help. There's a conversation with his ex-wife, and he keeps saying, 'I'm going to change', you know, 'I'm going to do good', 'I'm going to do better,' and she's just heard it so many times. Even she probably would've said at some point, 'will you just go and see someone and talk to them.' I think that's the awkward part, there's so much that family and friends can do for someone, but if you're not a mental health expert, you can offer their tuppence and hope that that person takes your advice and will them to get better. It's a very difficult situation.

JJ: You can also imagine Pete on the Trisha Godard show, can't you?! And Jeremy Kyle?!

MJ: That'd be so good! Why didn't I think of that?!

RL: The interesting thing about that is that it's a terrible, terrible thing.

MJ: Yeah.

JJ: Yes.

RL: Nowadays, if anyone ever does go on a show like that and has got…it's just the worst move they could make. It's just total exploitation. And it's amateurs saying, as long as they get the viewers, the more terrible a situation, you know, they exploit that. And it's for people's entertainment. They appear to be trying to help the person on the couch who's just waded through seven minders and tried to attack whoever, but they're sort of prodding them. It's like the Elizabethan's going for a walk around the asylum and having a look at the 'crazy people'.

MJ: It's a circus show.

RL: It is. It is.

JJ: And that's where Pete Blaggit's very different, isn't it?

RL: Definitely.

JJ: It's dealt with much more sensitively and there's no judgement made at all is there?

MJ: No. It's just this story about this guy who's…it's just about his journey, isn't it?

RL: Yeah.

MJ: We're just following his journey.

RL: There's no big right or wrong.

JJ: I think that's the beauty of it, really.

RL: It's just the exposition of it. It's not saying you have to be like this or you have to be like that, it's just explaining that this is what's happened to one person.

MJ: It's one person and it's storytelling at the end of day. It's what we're doing. It's just telling one guy's story without judging him or anyone else.

JJ: Which is quite a rarity from what I know from the films I've seen, to be honest. Particularly the older films, which tend to be very judgmental, highly critical, and often punish the characters narratively and by other means.

MJ: Yeah, if this character does this he's going to be punished by…yeah. There's a lot of that.

JJ: Well, that's absolutely fantastic. Thank you so much. Is there anything you'd like to add?

RL: I suppose it's been challenging at times, hasn't it?

MJ: Yeah, I suppose it has been.

RL: In order to get that across on screen?

MJ: It has been. Absolutely. In terms of creativity, in terms of making the film. Yeah. It has been a challenge, but it's been a good one, though. It's been good fun.

JJ: I suppose you've been on a journey yourselves as well?

MJ: Oh yeah.

RL: From day one on set to the last day we had. That was intense.

MJ: It's been an absolute rollercoaster.

RL: And obviously, in low-budget filmmaking, you're not gifted with the, 'we've got two months to shoot it, we'll do that today', we had to try to and crowbar a lot into four weeks.

MJ: That's the worst case scenario, when you do have to rush the scenes where it's a big scene and you want to take your time over it, but that is the nature of the beast. It is a low budget film.

RL: I'd like to say a huge amount of hard work and a huge amount of thanks to everyone involved, really.

MJ: Absolutely.

RL: Everyone's really given twenty out of ten for effort and sometimes in difficult circumstances. It wouldn't have happened without everyone's input.

MJ: So, just a big thank you to everyone involved.